http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/10/25/maine.same.sex/index.html
What makes me angry is this:
"But the leading opposition group, Stand for Marriage Maine, says accepting the legislation would strip the meaning and tradition out of marriage."
What does that even mean? Is this at all a valid argument anymore? I want someone to tell me exactly how two people getting married for love takes meaning and tradition away from the process.
14 comments:
here I go with my small minded response.
Marriage is a religious rite and tradition.
the pro gay "marriage" groups need to find another way of defining the union and rights they deserve beyond using "marriage".
Once they can do that, they'll strip away another layer of arguments from the opposition.
there will likely be more, but that one will be gone.
Ok, why is gay marriage such and oxymoron to you?
You know the perfect way to solve this? Stop calling it GAY marriage. Marriage should just be marriage. It should be a close and binding union between two people based on love that enables the beginning of a family unit.
That includes anybody. And for the sake of you bringing up another small-minded argument, ANYBODY is defined here, by me, as two consenting adults. ADULT is defined as someone 18-years-of-age or older.
Why should marriage be exclusive to heterosexuals?
"Marriage should just be marriage. It should be a close and binding union between two people based on love that enables the beginning of a family unit."
"Why should marriage be exclusive to heterosexuals?"
Simple answer bryan is that the government "borrowed" the term and definition from the religous side of things. So therefore, that title, marriage, as commonly known and defined is between a man and woman...again, simple answer.
At the same time, why does such a life long contract and symbol of love for the gay community, or any one for that matter, have to be called marriage? Why is that title so sought? Are you battling government or religion?
If you are arguing that the title is unjustly claimed by religions and I think you cause more religious or traditional thinkers to just become more defensive.
As I've always said, the gay and lesbian community is attacking this from the wrong side, and the ACLU and other just the same...it shouldn't be about the damn title of the contract, it should be more about equal rights and protections, and tax breaks...
However, I am willing to concede to simple thought here. As long as the title marriage is exclusively given to heterosexual couples only, homosexuals will never be equal.
Unless the conservative side decides to abolish the term and stop calling unions between a man and woman "marriage", the gay community have to fight for the title as well.
It's the only way we can be on equal footing. Do I want to begin to argue religion? Yes. Definitely. But that will be a long, long, LONG argument and I might end up falling victim to auto del fae.
But, religious renaissance is almost an impossible thing nowadays, so I can only hope for more open mindedness in that area. (However, I am noticing more and more religious groups carrying the sword for the gay community).
Why do we want marriage? Because we want to be equal. If you can't beat them (abolish marriage as a term) then join them (plead for marriage to be applied to same-sex couples.)
"It's the only way we can be on equal footing. Do I want to begin to argue religion? Yes. Definitely. But that will be a long, long, LONG argument and I might end up falling victim to auto del fae."
If you try to battle religion in this country, no matter who you are, you are in for a long and hard, as well as losing battle, plan in simple.
Sorry to say it, but if the gay community just wants the title, then the thought of marriage in all is just about the title and less about "equal rights"...not to sound mean, but if it is a title you are after, you are missing the whole point of marriage to begin with, and the argument becomes bull...again, not trying to sound mean, but I think its bull when people try to force people to change, rather than accept that some people will always be closed minded. Further, to attempt to change peoples minds on their religion in a country founded on the thought that no one has that right, the whole argument is useless.
iTS AGAIN ABOUT EQUAL RIGHTS. As mentioned before, to beat the case and legislative law, use the law in the right way...trying the marriage term is not the proper way...insuring equal rights protected under law for couples is the battle that needs to be fought, not a battle for a title.
Lastly, I can't stress this enough, if it is the religious title that is desired, then the argument is not valid. Its about rights, and that is what should be focused on.
if the gay community is looking for a way to protect their rights as a couple - health benefits, visitation, ability to share property, tax breaks, adoption of children (yet another fight).... they need to focus on that. call it a civil union. period. for those heteros wishing to be "married" without a religious ceremony, they get the same "license" as gays.
stop harping on the title of being "married". instead focus on your legal rights as a couple...your civil rights as a couple. as nate said - are you battling religion or civil rights? only one you have a chance at winning someday - women got the right to vote, slaves were granted freedom and ability to vote.... the gay community will have full civil rights as couples someday if they find a better way of communicating it.
and then there will always be a way to keep our community separate.
Abolish the legal protection on marriage.
Give EVERYONE a civil union, and stop protecting a religious ceremony as law.
ok, you're half right...yes, as I have always said, and you seem to have forgotten this bro, that the state should title it "civil union" for all couples, but you cant do away with the title of marriage or the ceremony, nor can they "do away with the legal protections for married couples", as that would be a form of a civil union.
However one celebrate the union is up to the individuals...
Again, not to be mean dude, but it sounds more like you are looking for a ceremony and a title...
And you're community will not be separate forever, so stop saying things like that, it only causes it to be true...much like many blakc americans were quoted when Obama was elected, "now I can finally tell my kids they can grow up and be president" or "now I can tell them they can do anything"...some in the black community were still believing they were separate...which only caused them to be separate...
I think as I've said all along, keep fighting for equal rights and protections, but don't believe that you can change someones religious beliefs or even deep routed hatred or bigotry, it won't happen. However, if the cause is for equal protection for all rights, you and or the gay community as a whole will succeed.
(Preface: As a Marine, title means something very deep to me)
Giving the gay community civil unions that have an almost complete package with the straight community, but NOT calling it marriage is...
Separate but equal.
So, yes, title means a lot in this debate. We want the rights, but if the words are not matched, then it won't be a success.
ok, you're acting like ALL churches refuse to marry gays. which is so untrue!
You can have the ceremony - and the title...you just don't have the legal rights yet. so..what is the thing you want? the pretty party or the ability to hold the hand of someone you love when they need you most or being able to answer for your loved one legally?
You have to stop pooping on the tradition and views held by the majority like their beliefs are worthless and evil. the all or nothing approach is not going to work. not All churches or religious groups have a problem...
attract flies with honey so they say.
Well, I wasn't actually going to get into this, but...
Religion is worthless and does more harm then good.
But this isn't the place to debate that.
wow, so this is really heating up, but I think "anonymous" stated it best by saying that the minority is trying to dictate not only law but also beliefs...which is a double whammy.
Anyways, as I have always said, the actual "license" or contract should be called something else...so that ALL ARE EQUAL...but since you are ignoring that, it is very clear that it is the title of marriage that is desired, meaning that it is more about changing someones mind rather than changing the laws...
for someone who has taken to a religion and beliefs as strongly as you had, it is funny for you to believe in changing peoples personal and religous beliefs...if the want to change they will, if they have the ability to change they will, otherwise they will always be the same...not worth that fight...
however, the fight for equal protection for all "couples" under the law is the fight worth fighting.
its pretty simple, and yet for some reason my points and thoughts on the issue seem to be lost in this debate...as if someone is arguing just to argue...and its not me!!!! awesome....anyways, it does seem like it is the band wagon someone has jumped on, and the debate against the evil religious majority is what it is about, and less about equal protection and more about as anonymous stated, the "party"...
Ok, backing up. I agree with you, Nate.
But what is so wrong with the desire to share the name of the act when that is all most Americans can get through their skulls?
because sharing the name steps on some religious believes, so your battle is with religious organizations, not the government at that point...and government can not require churches to marry gay couples if they chose not to, as that violates one of our founding laws...
The only battle there should be is for equal protection under the law for couples wedded by whatever means. Simple. Marriage as a title should be done away with, but the ceremony as one choses to have is their choice...the state should only recognize that the couple is entering into a life long contract, which should be recognized by the state (and by state I mean individual states) and the rights protected.
once again, if it is the title you are after, your battle is with many christian, muslim, as well as jewish groups who do not believe in gay marriage; good luck with that battle.
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